Slayer Mag

SLAYER
MAG
interview...

If you wanna hear from someone who has been around from the start of the extreme metal scene then Metalion is your man......via his dealings at the very genesis of the Black Metal scene, and his hugely influential Slayer Zine, this man has seen it all. He has stuck to his guns and continues to fly the flag for true metal and more importantly the good bands and releases that can still be found amidst the mediocrity. He certainly pulls no punches but then when you have seen what he has seen over the years your opinion counts, so read on and learn........
Interview conducted 24.09.02

Do you think that the time you spent as a very active member of the early Norwegian Black Metal scene tarnished the way you viewed all other types of Metal afterwards?
Expectations were higher perhaps after the excitement of those initial years, or maybe the magic of those 'early' days couldn't be replaced?

Yes, that would pretty much be the case. The thing with the Black Metal early years was that everything was good. It went from height to height, with many interesting and bizarre releases from the bands. THORNS for instance, that tape with just bass and guitar, we played that endlessly. There was not a shitty band in sight. So it was so refreshing after the Death Metal Florida scene got pretty stale, so this was the next level. We all loved the 80ies band like CELTIC FROST, BATHORY, SODOM and then the extremity of the Brazilian bands. SARCOFAGO and the ‘INRI’ LP was a huge influence on everyone!!!! There was definitely something interesting going and I’m glad to be involved to a certain degree. But you must remember there was a time before Norwegian Black Metal too. I guess my story is pretty similar to that of Shane NAPALM DEATH. I was also caught up with the tape trading and traded with Bill CARCASS and Mick NAPALM DEATH. Shane never wrote me back that bastard! HAHAHA! But you know, being in contact with bands like MORBID ANGEL, CARCASS, NAPALM DEATH etc. was also very cool, and helping them by promoting them in my zine and so on. Great memories. But musically speaking, I feel nothing these days is out of the ordinary. So much shitty stuff. Maybe a handful releases of good quality each year but nothing really shocking, plenty of good bands but not much overly thrilling. But anyway, the memories will always be there!

There's nothing like the innocence of you early Metal education, right? Especially the time before you start to appreciate how the business side works?
Yeah, that’s right! When I was listening to SODOM, HELLHAMMER and so on there was not a soul in sight here that appreciated the same madness. I remember having friends over because they wanted to listen to that record with the barking dog vocals. That was usually In The Sign Of Evil they talked about! HAHAHA!!! But it was so different then, over the years you learned more and more so that thrill was gone.

Sarcofago - INRI

Slayer first made an appearance in what, 1985? This was an extremely early stage for anyone to be reporting the comings and goings of the scene, you must feel privileged in that, unlike a lot of people today, you had nothing to compare or contrast your tastes with...you either liked something or you didn't? That must have been an extremely liberating time?

People were not so stuck up on genres back then and whatever was good, well, it was good. I’m extremely pleased that I have been a part of all this and witnessed the evolution of extreme Metal since day one. But you know, the reviews I did in ‘85 was even worse than those I do today. Also you seemed to appreciate the music much more back then. Now when you see there is a bunch of promo cd’s in the mail you don’t really get the excitement as back then. (If I’m getting excited these days it usually involves vinyl!) But you know, how could you not love these old days with SODOM, DESTRUCTION, NECROVORE, MUTILATED, CARCASS, VOIVOD. Or whatever. Everything was unique and sounded different to each other.
Sodom - In the Sign of Evil

Are you still able to carry that philosophy with you today? - Slayer has never been one to hold back when it comes to criticizing exactly what it doesn't like.
Very much so, if I like it I like, and if I don’t like it I must tell the Metal world that they should avoid this band. You know, the record labels do not control me nor do I control anything. I just give an honest review without knowing which consequences it might have.

In my view if you champion something that revolves around a bygone era, you run the risk of simply sounding irrelevant when time moves on - can you put your finger on what it is you dislike about so much of the Metal scene today, but also what really turns you onto a band these days?
There are too many bands and there are too many shitty bands. There are too many shitty record labels pushing shitty albums on an innocent public. Bands are to eager to have albums out and are usually signed after one demo, if that. Or there is certain hype around the band and they are actually signed because of who they are, not because of the music they play. I believe that was the case with WITCHERY for instance, they were signed before the record label even heard them. I’m sure there are more funny stories like that. (No offense to WITCHERY by the way) Also I know a bit about the business as I worked with VOICES OF WONDER (VME these days) and HEAD NOT FOUND for several years. And there are idiots among the bands too. Too many bands expect to sell millions of records and when they don’t they accuse the labels of ripping them off. What I like these days is the aggression of Thrash Metal. These days I find that to be most sane. There are luckily great bands out there still. I’m thinking of bands like DESTROYER 666, DESASTER, DEATHWITCH, ADORIOR and plenty of others. But the amount of shit bands takes the attention from them. Also I witness that many bands I like are just disappearing from the media, which is sad.

Destroyer 666

Desaster

What was your first introduction to Black Metal and what were your listening habits prior to discovering the more extreme side of music?
If VENOM ‘Black Metal’ counts (and it should) it must be them. VENOM was the passage to more extreme things for me VENOM was like something I always craved. I did hear more heavy bands before VENOM; I was and still am a big fan of traditional Metal. You know, growing up in the 70's picking up things from my older brothers Metal collection. Like SABBATH, PRIEST, VAN HALEN, SCORPIONS, UFO, THIN LIZZY etc. If it was heavy I liked it!!!! But when VENOM arrived in my world it was like I found my space, this was for me. Not only the ‘Satan’ aspect, but also the fact it was louder than hell. I found something to match MOTÖRHEAD and TANK.

Venom Thinking back to the early days of Slayer and the scene in Norway, it must have been a one in a million chance to meet up with Mayhem, a band with similarly extreme tastes, right in your own back yard. When did you first get into contact with them and how active where they at this time?

I first met Necro Butcher and Euronymous at a gig in Oslo; it was a MOTÖRHEAD gig actually. That was in the summer of ‘85. I brought some copies of SLAYER 2 to sell and I approached MAYHEM with it. They told me they had a band called MAYHEM and of course that impressed me. Nothing like discovering New Norwegian bands. But after that it was silent for a few months until I got a letter from a guy who was a friend of MAYHEM. He wanted to buy my magazine and also thought I should feature MAYHEM. So I contacted him with my phone number and some days later Necro Butcher called me. I reckon that was late ‘85. I was regularly in touch with him and he invited my over for rehearsals and beers. That was the beginning of an interesting relationship. I brought with me a lot of underground demos and they were right into it. At that time MAYHEM knew nothing about the underground, to tell you the truth they hardly knew what a demo was. So I introduced them to the underground, showed zines and explained how it worked. They loved it and especially Euronymous was getting more and more into the underground. When they released the ‘Pure Fucking Armageddon’ demo in ‘86 they already had some good contacts. We also went to Germany in ‘86 and they liked to call it a promotion tour but it was basically 3 guys going on Inter rail getting shit faced! But it was fun, on our first trip we went to see ASSASSIN (A band I know through their demos) and we met a lot of great bands, SODOM, KREATOR, DARKNESS +++++++ It was a great trip and many good memories. We also went to London to locate the SHADES record shop. It was really cool, Bernard Doe was working there and Kelv Hellraizer was following us with his air freshener! HAHAHA! But since then, they become an active underground band, also especially after the infamous demo review in METAL FORCES, that helped a lot!!!!

How long did it take for the Mayhem/Slayer based scene to expand into something more serious and noticeable? At what point, if any, did you think to yourself, "there is something different happening here"?
I would say that was pretty early on, after our before mentioned trip I assume. You know, we were listening to all this crazy bands and we wrote to people everywhere. My magazine started to get some recognition, MAYHEM decided to release the ‘Deathcrush’ mini LP and do everything themselves. They were not interested in getting signed; especially Euronymous was very stubborn about that. So that was pretty extreme for a Norwegian underground band, to release a self financed mini LP, but as usual cash was short, so I lent them some money too. I remember I gave Euronymous about £500 and realising I probably would never get the money back I took 100 copies of ‘Deathcrush’ in trade, I sold them all by ‘88. I wish I kept a few in a secret locker! In ‘87 we went on another trip and visited France (AGRESSOR), England again (by then SHADES was pretty shitty) and meeting Lee and Mick of NAPALM DEATH was great fun!!!!! But I’d like to say, because of the massive underground promotion by Euronymous the band become legendary!! This was the early indication of the Norwegian darkness!!!

Mayhem's "Deathcrush" mini LP Helvete became the centerpiece for the Black Metal scene in Norway pretty quickly? This was Euronymous' mouthpiece basically? It must also have stocked a lot of the current bands, but how did you get hold of the music you wanted before the arrival of store in your area?
Well, HELVETE become the center point on a social level, in the beginning it was not really having a good selection. Euronymous would bring a lot of his records there for display and not sale. It looked pretty fucking cool with VENOM picture discs on the wall and so on. Originally Euronymous asked me and two other guys from Sarpsborg to join in this project. We were all very eager to do this, but since I got no money to contribute I couldn’t join.

Still I spent a lot of time there and was living in the basement from time to time. Also, it was I that came up with the name HELVETE; I thought that would be pretty accurate. After a while the selection got better and Euronymous bought from the distro VOICES OF WONDER. But we all contributed, at that time it was not unusual for a private person to distribute some lp’s, demos or zines or whatever. I personally have always mostly ordered my stuff from various mail-order sources. But of course I got stuff at HELVETE too. Not that much stuff but.... I remember there was a guy coming from Poland and he brought with him lp’s of TURBO etc. so I hooked up with a few of those.

You indirectly introduced Dead to the Mayhem guys, correct?
Yes, one way or another you could say that. But Dead first send a tape of MORBID to MAYHEM and Euronymous played it for me, I was blown away. Me being the hyperactive letter writer send a letter to Dead and after a short while he replied. And just after that he called me, he would call me on a regular basis and we had endless conversations during many a night. At that time MAYHEM did not have a singer and I suggested him to call Euronymous to talk it over. And the rest is as they say history.

Euronymous in Helvete

Dead - Mayhem

Mayhem

Without going over old ground, looking back would you say the events in Norway and the early Black Metal scene as a whole were the results of chance meetings and events, as opposed to the systematic creation of a movement as Euronymous is often credited with forming?
Euronymous was the key character. He was the one everyone was interested in talking. He was the one that managed to influence hordes of Death Metal kids to go Black Metal. But the movement (if there ever was.) is not that organized as people might think.

Was this simply a case of young guys having a territorial battle, which got out of hand, or do you think that had Dead and Euroynmous lived, that their plans and visions for the future would have developed into something more coherent and stable?
I think it is safe to say they believed in what they did. So if they still would be among us I wouldn’t think they would be any different now. Look around, there are plenty of old timers around still so...

Unfortunately it took some tragic events to ultimately turn the music that Euronymous etc loved into a commercial concern - they say you're never so successful as when you've gone. Did you feel that Black Metal really did collapse after his death or was it a more gradual decline into a more 'commercial' arena?
It collapsed in the sense that creativity was gone. Even if there are more bands than ever the creativity is not good. You got all this industrial/techno things too and I guess that is interesting for some when you mix it with Black Metal. Personally, I think only SATYRICON is still doing good music of the Norwegian bands. And to a certain degree DIMMU BORGIR (I don’t like their earlier stuff much..) But at least those bands do something interesting now and don’t rely on a glorious past. And more and more people got involved in Black Metal and more and more joined for the wrong reason. Oh well.

		No one can doubt his passion, but was Euronymous really as full on and single-minded all the time like history would have us believe? There must have been lighter moments? Euronymous
You sure ask about Euronymous a lot! He was full on but not single minded. Very intelligent and very disorganized at times. A man of many visions. Of course there was lighter moments, of course there was laughter. I remember we talked about starting a KISS cover band called KIFF where we should put on KISS make up in less than 30 seconds. We also had ideas of an OZZY OSBOURNE cover band called OFFY OFBOURNE. Of course things like that never happens, it’s just showing that it is possible to have a few laughs.

Where were you when you heard the news of his murder and what was your instant reaction to his death? With the benefit of hindsight do you believe anything could have been done to prevent that?
I remember it well; it was my brother who told me the news. He was coming to my place and he had a newspaper with him, it was on the front page. So of course I was shocked, but I was even more confused. I didn’t understand anything. Just a few minutes later the cops arrived at my house and they picked me up for questioning, they brought me in to Oslo where I did the first interview. It was only for a few hours before they drove me back to Sarpsborg again. At this time it was like a dream phase - it was unreal.

How did you view Slayer's role within the Black Metal scene at the time? You devoted a lot of coverage to the scene but you also featured a lot of international Death and Thrash Metal bands too, so you never limited yourself. Would you say that was a fair description of what Slayer was and is still about, a broader outlook than simply one scene? I was there to witness everything first hand. I guess I was more respected (if that) because I was the friend of Euronymous and I had the SLAYER MAGAZINE. I guess I knew everyone from the early scene in Norway and luckily there is a few I still talk to. Like Fenriz or Samoth or whoever. That is true, I never really limited myself to Black or Death Metal. I have this rule: WHATEVER I LIKE I LIKE. Nothing more than that. So we had some oddballs in SLAYER over the years. Nowadays there aren’t really many Black Metal bands I find that interesting. You have still a lot of nutcases in Sweden like WAITAN, FUNERAL MIST, and CRAFT and of course NIFELHEIM. You can also say that we are supporting Metal Aggression. At the time Euronymous spouted a lot of abuse against what he saw as the 'commercialization' of Metal as a number of bands, Earache acts included, were crossing over and becoming more recognized...did you ever subscribe to that view and what are your thoughts on the 'popularity' enjoyed by some bands? Obscurity can't always be a good thing, just like not all bands that make it to a high media level have instantly 'sold out', surely?
		Nifelheim

I always had the capacity to think for myself. But what you are referring to; we loved NAPALM DEATH, we loved EXTREME NOISE TERROR. But Euronymous was very disappointed with the progression of NAPALM DEATH, Especially from the ‘Harmony Corruption’ LP. You know, they recorded at the MORRISOUND to get the typical Death Metal sound. NAPALM DEATH was labeled as Death Metal and they still had the social aware lyrics, so that was the reason for that. So it was not because they become popular it was because they changed. As many pointed out we had a good time at a few NAPALM shows and even visited Mick Harris and Lee Dorrian and Bill Steer a few times. Great memories. Personally I liked NAPALM very much (they even had a video at MTV in those days), I never cared what was right to.

What was the story with Head Not Found? - despite some good bands the label never quite took off they way you would have hoped...

		Well, lack of funds to run a label properly and having to many hassles with VOICES OF WONDER (my partners), I lost the fun and the energy, also really bad promotion didn’t impress the bands. But we started so well with ULVER, THE 3rd AND THE MORTAL and so on. At least something was achieved. Was it a case of failing to play the business game, or were you simply a better zine editor than a label boss? The business pissed me off; I lost the passion for music. So I left, the label still continues without me. No one seems to care about it so.... At least I enjoy making the zine better. I’m much more in control concerning this, at least I think so. Even if I never make any money or anything I still continue this mad game. Doing the mag single handed means that you work to your own rules, whereas the demands on a label from both bands and outside pressures can make you wonder sometimes who is in control I think...maybe its harder to let someone else have a say when you're a creative person? Well, what can I add to what have been said above. As far as being creative, whatever. I do this because I like it and I’m pleased when I see the result. If that makes me creative it is cool. I might not be a good writer but I have a passion for what I do. Be it positive or negative. I guess people understand that I’m for real and not a puppet controlled by anyone.
Euronymous

What is Slayer's purpose these days - back when it began it was all about announcing new bands and scenes - now it’s more of a case of preserving certain forms of music perhaps? Would you say Slayer is more on the defensive than attack these days?
I guess I’m pretty laidback as far as new bands goes, these days I find it much more interesting to investigate about the bands from the past. A few reasons for that; many of the interviews I did with bands in the past were just overly silly and stupid. Now there is time to do more reflected interviews. Also I enjoy pretty much locating old timers from old bands and doing interviews about the old days. Today for instance I did an interview with Martin Missy, the first singer of PROTECTOR. But if there is a new band the blows me away , sure they will be featured. But I guess SLAYER is not really important, as you say more defensive, more laid, but surely not dead.

Do you feel that sometimes your attitude now could be said to be regressive as opposed to progressive? The bands featured are often older bands from the Eighties, or if not then newer bands trying to recapture some of the spirit of the 80's?
What was so good about the 80's anyway?
I grew up in the 80ies, I always treasured the extreme scene of the 80ies, I love DESTRUCTION, CELTIC FROST, ASSASSIN, PROTECTOR, SODOM, DARKNESS, NECRONOMICON, BATHORY.... You know. That’s what I love and that is what I am. I’m not a Black Metal purist, I’m a Thrasher from the 80ies that enjoys all kinds of bizarre stuff. So yes, SLAYER has become regressive because I’m following myself instead trends. Anyway, hopefully I’m a slightly better writer than in ‘87.

Assasin - The Upcoming Terror

Destruction
A common misconception I feel these days is that people seem to think that things 'were better back in the day' when Black Metal first started out, or Death Metal, or Thrash Metal. The fact is there was a lot of crap about then, just as now, right?

I disagree, even the crap of the 80's sounds better than most shit released these days. HAHAHAHAHA! Bands that were laughed of was actually good - at least it sounds better now! HAHAHAHA! I guess SLAMMER was much better than everything ever released on LAST EPISODE - HAHAHAHA!!! But seriously, of course there was tons of crap back then. But the stuff that was good was so much better.

Even back in the 80's for every killer band like Sodom or Bathory, there was still a Slammer or Virus...what do you feel are the positive and negative points in the way Metal has developed in the last 10-15 years?
- Positive - Hmmmmmm, I must say it is better musicians in bands these days even if the musical idea is maybe not so good all the time. There are more concerts now, which is positive. I still love going to concerts. Negative things are that it is much less vinyl these days and it is far too many non-interesting bands.

What do you find so special about bands like Destruction, Usurper, and Destroyer 666 etc? Especially the last two, alongside other acts like Nifelhiem really have an archaic feel, do you think that because they use the founding aspects of Metal so well that they are somehow more worthy bands?
I feel like I have something in common with those bands. They hit me in the right place; they represent all I love in Metal. And to see them all still release good albums makes me pleased. These are individuals I can compare myself too. And also I know all of them personally and they inspire me very much. You know, some input from brothers that think alike is always inspiring.

Your views on the Metal scene in 2002? We all know that the term Metal has come to mean so many things and has been re-invented and repackaged so many times.........so much choice means little time to absorb anything. I guess the thing to do is to support whatever you like 100%, to follow your own instincts.
I don’t care; I do what I have to do!!!!

There's no sense from you that you're living in the past, trying to hang to something that was good while it lasted?
I might be living in the past or where the fuck I am - no point in talking about it. There is so much stuff from the past I am discovering now, like all the obscure bands from South America and so on. There are still so many lp’s to be bought - Anyway, I’m 35 years old, I enjoy my Metal very much, I still have long fucking hair, I headbang at every concert I go to, get drunk and act like an idiot, I wear my leather jacket with BATHORY & SODOM patches so don’t come here saying I am living in the past! Oh yeah, I just put on ARTILLERY ‘Fear Of Tomorrow’ on VINYL!!!!!

Even with the advent of cyberspace and the fact that Slayer has a website you still stick with the mag in print form - again this could be seen a living in a bygone age, what do you feel are the benefits of a printed page over the computer screen?

The computer, a great tool to get the things you want. You can send e-mails, people reply more often to that than a normal letter. It is true I have a web site and it is frequently visited, anyway, the web site is a priority, but not a very high one. It is a place where people can gather information about the history. See some stupid pictures etc. But I think the Internet is still very fragile, I don’t trust it one bit. One day I turn on my computer I’m sure it can be all gone. So, that’s why I prefer to PRINT the magazine even if I lose money on every issue. Still it is worth it when you have it in your blood-drenched hands. It is a full time job for me you know. And when you worked on something everyday for 12 hours for 6 months it feels good to have it in your hands, that it have materialized. I would assume it is like when a band releases an album. So after I put so much work into it, this is my reward, having the real thing in my hands. It gives me a good feeling, I made something.....

You take such a strong line against following any trends etc but have their ever been times when you wanted to feature a band but thought twice about it? Would you let your ideals stand in the way of exposing any music that didn't fit the Slayer vibe 100%?
Come one, I featured MARILYN MANSON & FAITH NO MORE in this bloody zine so I can’t really say that this is accurate! HAHAHAHA!!!!! As I said, I don’t care! Of course the priority is Metal because I love Metal but if there is something I want to feature I sure as hell will do that. If my reasoning for so is right I will do it.

Has there ever been a time when Slayer Mag became simply a chore to you? Fairly recently rumors circulated that you would give up?
Yes, that was when I released SLAYER 13, there were so many shitty bands and I got sick of everything. Nor was I in possession of my own computer.... But I thought why should I give up?? If I give up as long as LAST EPISODE is pouring out shit I lose. So I finally got my own computer (before that I was doing over night shift at VOICES OF WONDER just doing a few hectic writing sessions for a few days, that was a bit annoying), also it has been very recent that I started doing live interviews. I was a bit disappointed by some answers from bands, so that was an important step. It was mostly because of DESTRUCTION. When they re-formed I thought I have to interview them and the only way that could happen was in a live situation. Since then I did quite a few. Also being connected to the Internet helped. The money loss is still a factor but I will go on. I will not disappear.. not yet!

After all this time and involvement in the metal scene you must feel a great deal of satisfaction at the way you have handled Slayer and also stuck to your beliefs and what you feel is the right way to go about things?

Yes, I’m happy about what I have done and sticking to my original ideas. SLAYER might not be popular or big but it is there. In a way it is a MOTÖRHEAD situation. Even if they are past their glory days they are still doing ok! I’m the same way perhaps.	Interview by Dan Tobin
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